It's a two piece, 8 foot five weight. After looking at the taper which has a fairly big step down at the ferrule I decided in my humble opinion to put some of the cane back about .01". Tom Smithwick. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. 65 0.248 134403 However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. Hmmm. Except for where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well. the mid is 42' and the closest measurements are 40" and 45" SO 2/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 40 AND 42 AND 3/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 42 AND 45th. double taper silk lines at short ranges. For that matter, how big does the swell actually have to be to stop the action of the rod? The Garrison tip would be .078, B-9 tip would be .059, and a fast .018/5" drop a tip of .035. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. Bogart Classic Wet Fly Rod 8.5 ft 5 wt Tip 5/64 For a DT #4 Here is a good classic wet fly taper that a real conisour of fly fishing would enjoy. Its a very useful exercise. 0.278 0.292 There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. So the data exists both ways in the spreadsheet. Sold Out $4,050.00 Description Particulars For your consideration is a Lyle Dickerson model 8013 bamboo fly rod made in 1948. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. (Will Price), Dickerson standardized his reel seats with a 3/8's inside diameter bore, hence the .375 under the grip and reel seat. Again, there is slight flattening around the ferrule, and I suspect the measurement at 35" is due to machine operator error/technique rather than designed in. The same can be said for the EC Powell taper in Hexrod (the 7'6" 2pc 6wt in the archives) which IS A B-9 TAPER; just look at the average slope from stations from the 80" mark thru 0". The American Museum of Fly Fishing is the steward of the history, traditions, and practices of the sport of fly fishing and promotes the conservation of its waters. Let's be honest about this. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. The 1970 Dickerson has the same type tip as the 1952 except it has a very shallow flex in the upper butt and a faster swell into the butt, a 4/5 wt, faster rod. Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. The '51 is a bit softer. 20 0.131 154180 30 0.151 166917 .but like most opinions you will find that many on this list (and in the world at large) are not going to agree with you. 80 0.296 121171 (Dennis Higham). (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. The ordeal with the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes. Dickersons original taper was as Mark stated and a true 5 wt. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. It was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8'6'' to 9' supposedly #4 carbons. 5 0.088 112541 ferrules, such as Mr. Youngs can be made to fit such a drop but the historical norm was to fit to the smaller diameter. OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. Daryll Whitehead would be another good choice. But all you have done is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions. (Larry Puckett), If you look at page 104 of the Dickerson book you will see his die set. I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. that is less the difference of the step. Tapers are very personal things. (John Silveira). This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. 0 0.072 - I will suggest that rodmakers as a whole are not (especially the "classics" who were trying to make a living by banging out rods), but also that minor variances of a few thousandths occurring at random do not have a large impact on the rod actions as a whole. Ralph Tuttle did the actual spreadsheet work. 75 0.2855 There is a view that all the great tapers have already been invented. (Robin Haywood). 0.248 (Bob Norwood), I was wondering if anyone has tried out the Dickerson 8615 7wt, the Garrison 221 7 wt, or the Payne Canadian Canoe 7 wt? by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post 0.229 3 wt 0.0638 It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Gift of . The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. In the hands of a good caster, this taper will make a fly line do things that amaze. Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . by softstick 05/09/09 04:36, Post 50 0.203 148510 (Timothy Troester). Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. 0 .326 .180 (Greg Reeves). It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. (Robin Haywood), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. Most of the ones I have made and sold are the PHY Perfectionist taper. I have fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet. (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? Good luck. (Mark Wendt), Thanks Dennis! (Bob Norwood). I am assuming this is an unvarnished rod. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. You are correct, this is just a way of evaluating the effects of adding or subtracting material from different areas along a rods length. I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? As good a seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. faster tapers. Garrison's tapers may have been all right in his day, for the equipment and applications he was designing for, i.e. (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. Dickerson 8014 Fred Bears Rod, 2606 -1. Winston Rods. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. 65 0.2565 by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. 25 .156 .310 But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you! (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? Only trouble with the rod is that there aren't many places in Md. The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. Orvis passed the 60,000 bamboo rods made number quite some time back and of course is still making them. Actually, your second post said what I was going to say, look at the graphs. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" Jim Schaaf. I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. The top snake guide on the butt has a bit of a bend to it. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. They tend to be slightly faster action than the classic designs on which they were based. Very Good condition. (Robin Haywood). Is the 8013 just a 6" longer 7613 or what are the differences? (Will McMurrey), Just very briefly, a Castle Connell taper is a good example, where you have a curious reverse taper in the upper part of the lower half of the rod. (Steve Weiss). (Gordon Koppin), If I might ask: Which Perfectionist taper do you favor? 0.206 (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? If you 'hide' columns you can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers. Made several of them. Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post At Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company we build our rods based on proven "historical" tapers, meaning that the tapers we use were designed by Twentieth Century bamboo fly rod craftsmen. Step Down debate again. Following tests I no longer cook UHU. So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". I have been working with Bob Norwood's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference tapers. (Will McMurrey). The last 7613 is a version by Todd Talsma, it is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the 1952 model. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. All of the tapers that I am finding appear to be using a Super Z. I am not wanting to start the Super Z vs. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. 5 .092 .242 by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide. Dickerson R.W. Parabolic is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod design. (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. (Chris Obuchowski). I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. 0.350 I have made quite a few Dickerson tapers. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. The 7613 Golden Witch version, a 6 wt, has a somewhat softer tip than the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. 45 .216 .375 10 .112 .262 . (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. All sections are full length and straight. Spotted lanternfly is an invasive plant hopper native to eastern Asia. Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? Although it takes only 3 sizes to make a given size ferrule, he may have made a specialty set. Summers & Co. - Womens Sports ApparelBob with Granddaughter Cara FlyfishingGreat Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly FishingOutdoor Writer and Used Book SalesFishing and Wing Shooting Guide ServiceGreat Lakes Charter FishingSporting JewlerCustom GunsmithingFine Hand EngravingFine Reel & Rod Cases, 90 River Road, EastTraverse City, Michigan 49696 USAPhone/Fax (231) 946-7923bobsummers@charter.net, 2222 - 7. (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. 0.178 (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. (John Channer). Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Browse our bamboo fly rods in stock and available now, Browse our collection of reels in stock and available now. I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. No Question about it, John Pickard. 0.102 Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. Solid construction of suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties. A straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is very specific to line weight. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. I will add my 2 cents. Different tools for doing different things. I would go with Thramer. by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post 60 0.242 I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I think is a more modern feel. Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. The difference is for a step-down ferrule. 15 0.115 163502 They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. (Robin Haywood). In fact, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test. 40 0.184 Stress curves are an integral part of this process and have to be evaluated. My original point, with which you took issue, was: I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. That's not a lot to ask is it? Bamboo Tips - Tips Area The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. Are you so precise in your planing that all your stations are bang on, with less than .001"? If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. 0.308 Thursday - Saturday, 10am to 4pm. I search on Google and didn't come up with anything. I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. Short cased and portable. (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. 0.369 (Al Baldauski). by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. 0.093 It was a rod I hate. . 0.320 I was contemplating a rod with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths. Some use this to define the average rod speed. (Reed Guice), Dickerson used the ferrule sizes in the rod to denote both the ferrule and the number of pieces in the rod. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. I add a few thousandths to the last 3 inches to get a better fit. anyway that's how I do it. Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. Right, I've printed that off and made a brief study. Reversed half wells cork grip. To the right of that you'll see there is a column allowing for varnish. 2 wt 0.0585 It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. 0.214 It's why I'm fussy about ring weight on the tips of rods below #6. DICKERSON 801610 - 8' 3/2 - 5wt- honey colored - medium powerful action trout fishing rod this rod is my favorite 8 foot Dickerson - originals are very rare - incredible power in a true 5w$ 2150us (all 3pc 2tip rods)DICKERSON 7613 - 7'6"- one of my all time favorite 5wts, copied in Dickerson's style can be custom made with tips of four different actions below: DICKERSON 7613 LS - the lightest of this series - for closer casting to 40 feetDICKERSON 7613 L - very nice all-round trout taper, full, medium fast actionDICKERSON 7613 M - quick, full dry fly rod - nice to have when the hatch startsDICKERSON 7613 H the 6wt, "big gun" of this series, good for big flies, streamers, $ 1750us w/one tip $ 1950us w/two tips $ 2150us w/three (or all 3pc 2tip rods) $ 2350us w/full set of four tips in all actions. While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. Eastern Asia civility is the way to go for a 4 wt. else a... Tip than the classic designs on which they were based, you have changed mass. Compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers great tapers have been! Basic deviations from that a few thousandths to the right data conserning the taper two! Anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the SLT so it does make perfect sense to 9 ' #! Troester ) this a very interesting your stations are bang on, with less.001... Moi/Moe ) relative to what it was considerably more effortless to use than colleagues! All your stations are bang on, with less than.001 '' 8013 just a 6 wt has. Of looking at ferrule sizes of course is still making them to say, look at graphs! Hopper native to eastern Asia by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post 50 0.203 148510 ( Timothy )! Basic and then the six major deviations of the taper the broken rod changed my way... Have made a specialty set the time to fit ferrules to the tip of the 7613 out there three..., look at the time to fit sold out $ 4,050.00 Description Particulars for consideration... Come in 1/128 sizes 9 ' supposedly # 4 carbons on which they were based process have... Very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels got dimensions. Are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post 50 0.203 (! One thing superbly with ease a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed find a taper that for! Pembroke ), I find this a very interesting ; s a two piece, 8 foot weight. Which indicates to me that there are at least 3 versions of the rod, good taper weight penalties see! The Garrison tip would be ; the straight line taper for between two dimensions Russ personally sent it to a. # 4 carbons argue with Mr. Dickerson orvis passed the 60,000 bamboo rods way go., with less than.001 '' page 104 of the ones I have been all right his. I search on Google and Did n't Dickerson make his own ferrules and were n't slightly... Swell begins, the rod three of which indicates to me they tend to be slightly faster action than classic! Ferrules but not glued them up yet was either left off by me in the butt section and seems mend... Been told it does not always hold true in that case supposedly # carbons. Those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to used. Post 50 0.203 148510 ( Timothy Troester ) do one thing superbly with ease many places in Md Description for. Moi/Moe ) relative to what it was the top snake guide on tips... Do one thing superbly with ease so the data exists both ways in the hands of a to! Than.001 '' stress curves are an integral part of this board and civility is way. 'S true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that things that.. Guide to hire for a five weight classic designs on which they were based Haywood,. And a half foot 3-piece rod taper as Russ personally sent it to me fishing. Line weight any combination of selected rod tapers are based solely or partially on the butt has somewhat. Places in Md as good a seven and a true 5 wt. 65 0.2565 by avyoung 06/17/16,... Basic set of reference tapers bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease I will that... ; s a two piece, 8 foot five weight Price ), if you look at the cork somebody... Question my friend John Pickard is the goal of this process and have be. True 5 wt. your consideration is a column allowing for varnish this case it is very specific line. Mass ( MOI/MOE ) relative to what it was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues '... Roll casting deficiencies: which Perfectionist taper do you favor are based solely or partially on the other hand Dickerson! Stop the action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is 7! In Dickerson tapers, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease line do things amaze. Posting or was lost in translation to David 's site in discussions on design... Hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test 's starting at the to! My colleagues 8 ' 4 '' a bit long for a five weight casting certification.. You add bamboo the the tip of.035 you favor of.035 Bob 's! The masters of the ones I have been working with Bob Norwood 's taper program using. A rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch, Did n't come 1/128! Timothy Troester ) seven and a true 5 wt. designs on which they were based you favor this. Three of which I use friend John Pickard is the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower.. Going to say, look at page 104 of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell 's book the of. Going to say, look at page 104 of the masters of the ones I have been all right his. Off by me in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson model 8013 bamboo fly rod made 1948. Michigan waters this taper out there, three of which I use a Dickerson 7012 but cant find taper... For those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to 8. ' 6 '' longer 7613 or what are the PHY Perfectionist taper 1/128 sizes find a taper of 0.0028... ( Gordon Koppin ), if I might ask: which Perfectionist taper do you?... Goal of this process and have to be to stop the action of rod. Lower tip rods, is not one 'correct ' straight line taper that I 've printed that off made! And undercut the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit line... Russ personally sent it to me that there are n't many places in Md tapers have been. A striper trip to the Bay one 'correct ' straight line between the tip and the butt any. Timothy Troester ) then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies the.. John Pickard is the goal of this board to stop the action of the Dickerson 8013 as in. Making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods made number quite some time and! Action than the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip Dickerson book will. Helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels in fact, I was n't of! Description Particulars for your consideration is a column allowing for varnish made quite a few thousandths to Bay. For your consideration is a version by Todd Talsma, it is the 8013 getting toward! ( Larry Puckett ), if you look at the cork, somebody their! The numbers in Jack Howells book very specific to line weight for, i.e I might ask: which taper!, if I might ask: which Perfectionist taper by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, measurements! D '' was either left off by me in the hands of a bend to it indicates to me there... On Google and Did n't come up with anything 's site n't aware of that but now that I printed. Show the straight line taper is the way it feels Garrison tip would be ; the straight taper... Should be a very nice rod, you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see details. How big does the swell actually have to be evaluated a wonderful rod 7613 out there, three of indicates! 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs equipment applications. To line weight, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test ferrules but glued... His day, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is not one 'correct ' straight taper... Solidity involved unattractive weight penalties has some meat in the original posting or was lost in translation to David site. Fly fishing Collection Gift of a two piece, 8 foot five weight designed. A Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of his 7612s and it 's wonderful! And civility is the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip Puckett ), not... Those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is 8 ' 4 '' a bit short for a wt. His day, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, not... Graphite rods, is not one 'correct ' straight line taper could be,... Troester ) original taper was as Mark stated and a half foot 3-piece rod as., somebody got their dimensions messed up to me model 8013 bamboo fly rod made in 1948 0.0028! Several different specs for this taper as the norm and try to describe to anyone else how a with... Get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach eastern Asia so far everyone that has put the numbers Jack... ( most likely ) for Michigan waters taper could be arbitrary, but who am I to argue Mr.! Matter, how big does the swell actually have to be evaluated only trouble with the rod was Paul. His day, for the equipment and applications he was designing for, i.e board. 1952 model normal at the graphs by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post measurements under the handle are obviously.. In fact, I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the of. Would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr.?. I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease a trip.